Saturday, April 14, 2007

#014, Upanishads and Gita are true scriptures

Swami Vivekananda wrote to Shri Pramadadas Mitra on May 30, 1897:

"... The Upanishads and the Gita are the true scriptures; Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Chaitanya, Nanak, Kabir, and so on are the true Avataras ..."

In the same letter he mentions:

"...It is in the books written by priests that madnesses like that of caste are to be found, and not in books revealed from God. Let the priests enjoy the fruits of their ancestors' achievement, while I follow the word of God, for my good lies there..."

Had Vivekananda read verses 43 and 44 of chapter 18 of Bhagavad Gita, he would have easily found that one of Gita's principal objects was to impose caste system and the duties entrusted to every caste. I quote them here with translation:

MSY 43
s`auryam teejoo dhrutir daakshyam yuddhee ca api apalaayanam
daanam iis`varabhaavas` ca kshatrakarma svabhaavajam

MSY 44
krushi goorakshya vaan`ijyam vais`yakarma svabhaavajam
paricaryaatmakam karma s`uudrasyaapi svabhaavajam

English translation:
Valor, vigor, courage, efficiency and effectiveness, not fleeing from the battle field, charity, desire to rule the world are all the inherent duties and Actions of a Warrior. (DELIVERANCE 43).
Agriculture, cow-rearing, trade, are the inherent functions of a Trader-caste-born person.
Service is the inherent function of a Fourth-Caste born. (DELIVERANCE 44).

Vivekananda considered Krishna as a true incarnation (avatar). Can a true incarnation preach caste system? If Vivekananda had read these verses, would he have accepted Gita as a true scripture? In his letter, he said that "Caste is the greatest dividing factor and is the root of Maya". If caste is a "Maya (illusion)", Gita's main aim is to impose caste-linked duties.

"...The Gita no doubt has already become the Bible of Hinduism, and it fully deserves to be so ..."

The bible of Hinduism wants Sudras to serve the higher castes!

In the same letter quoted above Vivekananda called himself Shudra and declared that he is free from all botheration of discipline. In his own words:

"... Over and above, I come to see from my studies that the disciplines of religion are not for the Shudra; if he exercises any discrimination about food or about going out to foreign lands, it is all useless in his case, only so much labour lost. I am a Shudra, a Mlechchha, so I have nothing to do with all that botheration. ... "

Writer's observations: 1) Vivekananda is taking a defence of his being "Shudra" when it comes to the question of following food discipline. For other purposes, he does not want caste.

2) For monks there is no caste. Monkhood is a rebirth and past-birth (house-holder) vasanas and samskaaras (memories, attachments, behaviors, thoughts) have to go. A monk has to adopt a monk's discipline. Now, the question arises: whether there is any code of food, drink and movement for monks? Though Mahabharata mentions the four Aashramas (stages of life: celibate-student, house-holder, forest-dweller, monk), rarely do we find the "dos and don'ts" prescribed for monks. Ascetics and sages in Hinduism are called Munis and Rushis. The younger ones will be in stage 1 (celibate student). The aged ones get married, become house-holders (stage-2) or forest-dwellers (stage-3). Rarely do we come across stage-4 of monks.

The concept of monks wearing ochre-robes, renouncing the world, residing at Mat`hs, seems to have started with Sankaracharya (9th Century A.D.) and his disciples. In their lineage we can find Badari, Puri, Dwaraka, Sringeri and Kanchi (partly) Mat`hs. They propagate the "Advaita Vedanta" which Vivekananda ostensibly propagated. The S`ankara Maths have a tradition of following vegetarianism and abstinence from alcohol (till contrary is proved). They do not seem to have any ban on foreign travel. On some occasions, Vivekananda compared himself to Adi S`ankaracharya. Aadi S`ankaracharya and his disciples have Sanskrit works of about 100,000 verses).


Anonymous said...

Sankara, according to one school of researchers, was not satisfied with Hinduism and found Buddhism better. So he converted to Buddhism, studied all about it, and in his effort to cleanse Hinduism of its undesirable aspects, came back to Hinduism, and brought in the concept of "Moksha" which is very akin to the Buddhistic "Nirvana". While the Vedas celebrated long life and happiness (...Satham jeevEma, daSa asyAm puthRaan adhEhi... etc.) the new model gave primacy to one's own deliverence. But the catch is how does one verify whether anyone has attained Moksha so far?

Sankara's system of Sanyasis with shaven head, ochre robs, the Dasanami system based on the level of spiritual development, etc., are copied from Buddhism and hence Sankara is also known as "PrachcHanna Bouddha" - the Buddhist in disguise.

Multisubj Yb TruthSeeker said...

Sir: I totally agree with you. Today, I feel that my pains of nearly one year for writing these blogs, have found some fulfilment.

Krishna said...

People are free to believe whatever they want...But trying to falsify and confuse others is not acceptable. 'Moksha' is discussed in detail through out Gita which is considered to be written around three thousand years before Budha. So why Sankara has to be bring it from Budhism ?

Same way, Mr Multisubj, you are quoting from Swamiji's letters which were intended only for a particular reader. That means his words and ideas were chosen specifically for the reader to get the message through. It will be wrong if we, after hundred years, try to interpret without knowing the head or tail of why it was written ! It is ridiculous that you question, swamiji's knowledge on Gita, while all his speeches are filled with innumerable quotes from our holy scriptures like Vedas, Gita and Upanishads.

Multisubj Yb TruthSeeker said...

Multisubj Yb TruthSeeker said...

Dear Shri Krishna: Thank you very much for visiting my blog. Pl. see my reply to your comments at my post No. 014. My replies you can see in my new post No. 000A -Replies to comments of Shri Krishna.

I believe that you have not read all the 200 posts made by me with proof. After reading them thoroughly, you can make your own conclusions.

Ramakrishna Math submitted before the Supreme Court of India that they were a a minority religion different from Hinduism. This is for your information.

Pl also think once: Is it necessary to wake up four years earlier and start cooing about the 150th Anniversary? Was the Govt. of India going to spend hundred crores on the celebrations? How many crores, the sectarians of Vivekananda , are going to collect? And all this in the name of Hindu religion and charity, when Ramakrishna religion is a religion different from Hinduism! Charity: There is a need to divide and show clearly the expenses incurred on administration and publicity and the actual charity. There are accumulated funds. New funds are collected. What percentage of the total funds will go to charity? What percentage will go to other expenses including air-conditioners, air tickets, marble panels, teak and mahagony furniture. It will be better, if they keep everything on the internet. Anyway, of course, nobody can equal IPL Cricket or BCCI or MCI Chairman in collections. I welcome it, if the Vivekananda 150th Birthday Celebrations spend 80% on charity and 20% on expenses. I am not a hater of Vivekananda or his preachings. I only hate his hypocrisy, ( he himself said he hated hypocrisy). If you find time, kindly read my Ramayana blog also at You can delete my comments at your blog, at your discretion. My purpose of bringing the facts to your notice has been served.

Vikram Adithya said...

Buddy you are really a good explorer, might be little slow at understanding.

Caste system is imposed by Illiterate greedy bhramhanas on Illiterate shurdhras...

Gettha & Vedas say, who ever can protect the country are kshathriya.. Who ever can Teach & Cure are brahmanas.. Business -> vaishya and Working class known as shudras...

I consider all Teachers, scientists and Doctors as brahmanas.. All police & Military & Administration khsatriyas...
All business people including landholding farmers as vaishyas...

The working class who just they do specified work including IT sector as shudras ...

Do you have any problem with this.. No where in geetha or Veda it is said that a son should hold on to his fathers caste...

some where you mentioned you read complete works of vivekananda.. have you ever read he mentions two types of society one is spiritual other is the material... In spiritual it includes the sanyasas.. anyone can take this and all considered same there...

The Shudra, Bhrahmana, Kshathriya & vaishya belongs to materialistic society...

You have to understand, don't mug-up for just referencing sake...