Thursday, August 29, 2013

#264 Prabhudasa- rAmakrishNa and vivEkAnanda

A.C. bhakti vEdAnta swAmi, popularly known as prabhupAda (founder of harEkrishNa movement and ISKCON) wrote to Shri satsvarUpa, from Los Angeles, California, on the 25th February 1968. Here is a quote:

"...You may know also that Ramakrishna's worship of Kali makes him a third class man. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that one who worships the demigods just like Brahma, Siva, Indra, Candra or demigoddesses like Kali, Durga, Sarasvati, etc., are described as persons who have lost their intelligence. One person who has lost his intelligence, how he can become an incarnation of God?


A person who has lost his intelligence, is not even counted amongst the higher section of society. So, the Ramakrishna is a bogus man according to the statement of Bhagavad-gita. Vivekananda was also not even intelligent man because he accepted Ramakrsna as incarnation of God. This Ramakrsna, who is actually Gadadhara Chatterjee, declared himself as the same Rama and Krsna.


If he is accepted as such by some person, is he very intelligent man? Suppose a man comes before somebody and says he is Pres. Johnson. and the foolish man accepts the pretender as Pres. Johnson, is that man to be accepted as very intelligent man? Vivekananda was not even an intelligent man because he accepted Gadhadhara Chatterjee as incarnation of God without any credentials.


We accept Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead on the evidence of Vedic literature. There is no evidence in the Vedic literatures that a common unintelligent person by worshipping a demigoddess Kali can become an incarnation of Godhead. The goddess Kali is divine mother for the conditioned souls, not for the liberated souls.


There is no direction in the Vedic literatures that one can become liberated even by worshipping the goddess Kali. She is superintendent of the prison house known as material world. One can derive some material facilities by worshipping Kali or Durga, but nobody can become liberated by worshipping such demigoddesses, so what to speak of becoming incarnation of Godhead.


So the propaganda that Ramakrsna became incarnation of God by worshipping Kali is not accepted by any authorized acharya and therefore it is a bogus propaganda. One who follows therefore, such bogus propaganda is also misled as far as his spiritual advancement is concerned. ..."


ybrao a donkey's notes as blogger



1. What is the definition of a demi-God?

2. vEdas place indra at a higher plane, than vishNu. Since Shri bhakti vEdAnta swAmi claimed that they depend on vEdas, he ought to have worshipped indra as the supreme God, instead of viShNu, who has little role in rigvEda.

3. How can kALi be a demiGoddess? Who is to define?

4. Can Shri bhakti vEdAnta swAmi (prabhupAda) was just a human like vivEkananda. How can he declare that vivEkAnanda was not an intelligent man? Was Shri ACB condescending to pass a value judgement on swAmi vivEkAnanda?

Another quote of Shri prabhudAsa's conversation, we can find:



Prabhupada: Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god.

Guest (1): Isn't yours a product of or derivative of Vedic?

Prabhupada: Yes, completely.

Guest (1): So how would you...

Prabhupada: Just like whatever question you are asking, we are answering from Vedic literature. We are not answering ourself. That is the difference. The evidence is from the Vedic literature. I don't say that "In my opinion it is like this." We don't say.


ybrao a donkey's notes as blogger



1. vEdic literature has its own short-comings.

2. It is very important to recognise that founder of cults and propagandaists of cults can blow and blow down Gods and Goddesses.

3. Though vivEkAnanda started with a philosophical promise (advaita vEdAnta or monistic philosophy), his whole mission revolved around building a structure for worshipping the mortal remains of rAmakrishNa. vivEkAnanda ended up sacrificing goat and lighting fireworks in durga pUja. That was a travesty (and also a tragedy) from philosophy to idol worship, during an endless strife to mobilise dollars for alleged-charity and personal expenditure.

4. Iskcon is vigorously engaged in spreading idol worship, collecting lands from Government. RK Missions also do the samething, only difference being replacement of SrikrishNa's idols with photo-frames of rAmakrishna and vivEkananda. Singing of devotional music is common for both. While Iskcon lays emphasis on vegetarianism, RK Missions seem to maintain a low profile about veg.

5. Philosophy seems to have been driven to back-benches, because analysing philosophy and practising philosophical tenets are difficult jobs of labor. Idol-worship is easy.

6. Both Iskcon and RK publish glossy books. But Iskcon seems to score a point higher in using latest machinery and color photos. Iskcon book prices seem to be higher than RK book prices. Decoration of temples and illuminating them with electric lights, Iskcon seems to dominate.

7. Whenever I visit bookshops, I undertake one activity, I do not know its utility. Compare the number of books displayed for Hinduism , Christianity, Islam, for different sects/cults of each religion . Book sellers tell me that there is great demand for religions of all cults, sects and brands, not only from aged-retired persons, but also from youth. Some say, that they are surviving on the sale of print versions of religious books, in these days tv/internet domination. They also say that they are surviving because Governments do not levy VAT book sellers.

8. I try to elicit from them whether they stock some secular books, at least as exhibits or samples. Nay, nay, nay. Here, this nay refers to books other than school-college-university text books, coffee-table books, marketing business stuff and other similar genre.

9. In many towns and cities, there seem to be separate book shops for selling books of different religions. In other-words dedicated bookshops catering to x religion or y religion. Thus the followers/readers of x religion or cult/sect will not be able to know what is happening in other religions and cults/sects.

10. One bookseller has told me that though he wants to maintain the books of all the three major religions/cults/sects, he is unable to implement it owing to paucity of Capital, pointing his fingers to the empty shelfs.

11. Thus the chasms among cults/sects/religions widen.

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